tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4202625234167413814.post91638063566716991..comments2024-02-28T17:50:10.303+00:00Comments on LUCID FRENZY JUNIOR: ‘WILLIAM BLAKE’Gavin Burrowshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16347163260510316959noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4202625234167413814.post-13207468648259397022020-12-17T17:05:34.831+00:002020-12-17T17:05:34.831+00:00Well maybe he did say that. But it was Barbara who...Well maybe he did say that. But it was Barbara who was the humanities teacher.Gavin Burrowshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16347163260510316959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4202625234167413814.post-6215049652257958912020-12-16T22:39:05.814+00:002020-12-16T22:39:05.814+00:00A rational observer might feel that we have discus...A rational observer might feel that we have discussed the meaning of "inchoate" about as much as two adult men ought to. But let me just offer this observation. Chesterton made the point that it's useless to talk about progress unless you gave first decided on what destination you are trying to progress towards: in other words, while progress itself is a process of change, it depends on there being a fixed point. I would say that in the same was a thing can only be inchoate if it's being judged as such against some specific end-state. The lava is not <i>aiming</i> to become rock, but we only judge it as inchoate because we have a sense that that is its destiny. Whereas water in an ocean — which might eventually freeze — is not evidently on a trajectory that leads to freezing, and is merely in constant change: so it cannot be described as inchoate.<br /><br />And with that, I bow out of this discussion, and leave the last word to you. Thank you, it's been oddly fascinating!Mike Taylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06039663158335543317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4202625234167413814.post-81908144414878666192020-12-16T21:55:32.044+00:002020-12-16T21:55:32.044+00:00Mmm, on the other hand maybe it's a good way o...Mmm, on the other hand maybe it's a good way of seeing human creation too. There's a Dylan quote about always having to perceive yourself as in a state of becoming, never having arrived anywhere. And even such a lowly level as me writing this blog, I think that is how I try to look at it.Gavin Burrowshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16347163260510316959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4202625234167413814.post-82368637984632262002020-12-16T18:27:18.496+00:002020-12-16T18:27:18.496+00:00I don't think it necessarily suggests a goal. ...I don't think it necessarily suggests a goal. Bubbling lava will eventually solidify into rock, so is inchoate, but it's not aiming to become rock.<br /><br />I'm more interested in Blake (and after him the Romantics) seeing the world as permanently volatile than his work.Gavin Burrowshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16347163260510316959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4202625234167413814.post-47283891014553742952020-12-16T18:16:21.513+00:002020-12-16T18:16:21.513+00:00Well, I should preface my comments by reiterating ...Well, I should preface my comments by reiterating that I know nothing about Blake, Romanticism, Turner or indeed art.<br /><br />But I still think "inchoate" is wrong, because to me it connotes a goal of having been created — it is a point along the journey to a destination. Whereas if I properly understand your characterisation of Blake, he quite consciously had no destination in mind, having insead adopted what you describe as "a permanent state of transience". His work could be described as inchoate if he was on the way to say, Stockport, but it seems he was content instead to wander up and down the A6 and M60 and see what he found there.Mike Taylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06039663158335543317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4202625234167413814.post-10419366205385353642020-12-16T17:55:20.246+00:002020-12-16T17:55:20.246+00:00I shall now prove what a humourless git I am by co...I shall now prove what a humourless git I am by coming back to this like I couldn’t figure out it was just a flippant comment…<br /><br />We do need a term for ‘in a perpetual state of becoming’, not least when discussing Blake. And bending ‘incohate’ to your will seems as good as any. Blake’s cosmic systems weren’t fixed, couldn’t be fixed and were never meant to be fixed.<br /><br />Which is another way in which we was genuinely proto-Romantic. In an old piece on Turner I commented on the then-prevalent expression ‘Creation’. Not because it implied a Creator, but because it suggested the past tense. We live in the world like we live in our homes. It was assembled for us before we moved in, the plaster dry.<br /><br />Whereas Turner’s art depicted a world in a permanent state of transience. His raging storms didn’t interrupt the normal state of things, they were the normal state of things raised to their apogee. The world din’t belong to us, we belonged to the world.<br /><br />(And if anyone says I have now misused ‘apogee’ I will sulk terribly.)Gavin Burrowshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16347163260510316959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4202625234167413814.post-30433942380632271662020-12-15T18:19:28.722+00:002020-12-15T18:19:28.722+00:00One day, someone will claim Blake wrote that. And ...One day, someone will claim Blake wrote that. And use my blog as evidence.<br /><br />Gavin Burrowshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16347163260510316959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4202625234167413814.post-41582738625497683622020-12-15T18:17:16.660+00:002020-12-15T18:17:16.660+00:00When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in ra...When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less."<br />"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."<br />"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master—that's all."Mike Taylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06039663158335543317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4202625234167413814.post-27533697583504331312020-12-15T18:15:06.175+00:002020-12-15T18:15:06.175+00:00It's my blog and the words around here mean wh...It's my blog and the words around here mean what I say they mean!<br /><br />(He said splondiferously.)Gavin Burrowshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16347163260510316959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4202625234167413814.post-79592031607066083452020-12-15T18:13:04.989+00:002020-12-15T18:13:04.989+00:00I am not 100% convinced that definition will fly :...I am not 100% convinced that definition will fly :-)<br /><br />See https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/inchoate<br /><br />Anyway: fascinating post on a subject I knew almost nothing about, so thank you. (Also true of the <i>Celestial Toymaker</i> post!)Mike Taylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06039663158335543317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4202625234167413814.post-88373021022956078042020-12-15T17:47:03.439+00:002020-12-15T17:47:03.439+00:00I think I mean inchoate not in the sense of a proc...I think I mean inchoate not in the sense of a process of becoming, like a baking cake, but perpetual volatility. This may well be some new definition of the word I've just invented.<br /><br />Perhaps it also relates to my final para, there are eras where questions can be posed without them being answerable. I may well be digging myself in deeper here...Gavin Burrowshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16347163260510316959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4202625234167413814.post-90420929812023655592020-12-15T00:16:10.511+00:002020-12-15T00:16:10.511+00:00Do you really mean "inchoate" (in the pr...Do you really mean "inchoate" (in the process of coming into being) or merely incoherent?Mike Taylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06039663158335543317noreply@blogger.com